Gavin Newsom, the Democratic governor of California, launched his 2028 presidential bid on March 6 via, of course, a podcast. This Is Gavin Newsom was released on all the usual platforms with two of the strangest interviews in modern political history.
On the first episode Newsom, who as mayor of San Francisco issued marriage licenses to gay couples back in 2004, hosted Charlie Kirk, the conservative media personality who spent last autumn preaching that gay marriage should be banned. The fourth show saw Newsom, who backed Joe Biden to the bitter end, go head-to-head with Steve Bannon without once challenging Bannon’s claims that Biden stole the 2020 election. He’s since interviewed conservative commentator Michael Savage and Democratic governor Tim Walz.
This has appalled just about everyone in American politics. In the UK, we’re used to former spin doctors and MPs presenting podcasts with gentle jousting over the centre ground. But in partisan America, the idea that a Democratic governor would have a genial chat with a Republican firebrand has shocked and angered both sides.
The bipartisan site The Hill headlined its review “No one wants a Gavin Newsom podcast – not even Democrats.” Californian state assembly Democrat member Alex Lee has condemned the show as “terrible,” former Illinois congressman Adam Kinzinger tweeted that the pod was “unforgivable and insane”, while the liberal New Yorker magazine condemned it as “ill-fated and embarrassing”. Even Jane Fonda joined the pile-on, using the Bannon interview as an excuse to compare Newsom with Neville Chamberlain.
Republicans, meanwhile, seem spooked for different reasons. When asked if Newsom could give Republicans problems, Steve Bannon said “hell, yes”, while the conservative commentator Megyn Kelly warned GOP-ers to stop joining the California governor’s show. After Kirk appeared on the show, he wrote a column on the Fox News website advising Republicans to “beware”.
Given this furore, you’d expect quite a lively show but, for British listeners used to a more informed style of interviewer, This Is Gavin Newsom is strangely soft and even a little bland. Newsom almost feels like the liberal Trump podcaster Theo Von, whose schtick is slightly baffled interest and a willingness to let his guests steamroller the chat. He murmurs along with his guests and asks surprisingly supportive questions.
Gavin Newsom with his first podcast guest, Charlie Kirk
As Charlie Kirk talks about building his conservative movement Turning Point, Newsom chucks in the odd “love it” and laughs with a certain delight as Kirk runs through his CV. “Is that confidence or narcissism?” is about as punchy as he gets.
At one point, Bannon runs through rebuilding the Maga base after the “stolen election,” Newsom strikes back: “Well, I appreciate the notion of agency.” The New York Times headlined its review “What on Earth is Gavin Newsom Doing?”
The answer? According to Newsom “it’s time to have a conversation. It’s time to have honest discussions with people that agree and disagree with us. It’s time to answer the hard questions and be open to criticism, and debate without demeaning or dehumanizing one other.”
Which translates as running for president in plain sight by trying to speak to Bannon and Kirk’s audience – proving he’s the most Maga-fluent Democrat on the block. He is definitely not auditioning for a job as an interviewer. Newsom spends an awful lot of time “appreciating” his guests’ points – so much so that one commenter underneath the show’s YouTube feed posted “this podcast should be called, I Appreciate That with Gavin Newsom.”
Newsom is trying to slide into the podcasting world for obvious reasons. 1960 was the first TV election, 2016 went to social-media and 2024 was long-form podcasts and live streams on Twitch and YouTube, which are dominated by Maga bros. According to research from the Pew Centre in 2023, 46 per cent of Republicans had listened to a podcast in the previous 12 months while Democrats came in slightly higher at 54 per cent. And yet, during the Biden Administration, about a dozen Republicans were both active podcast hosts and sitting members of Congress, while few Democrats tried.
The biggest bro of them all, Joe Rogan, all but handed over his show over to the Trump campaign during the final weeks of the election, letting JD Vance and Elon Musk chunter away before an extended interview with the candidate led to him endorsing Trump the day before the election.
After their defeat, Democrats started wishing for a “Joe Rogan of the left.” Google the phrase and you’ll see reams of analysis – including many commentators on both Left and Right arguing that the Left “can’t create a new Joe Rogan”.
But back in 2020, there was a Joe Rogan of the left – Joe Rogan. He’s socially liberal, insists he’s not homophobic, is pro-choice and he’s a fan of sex, drugs, and rock and roll. He’s basically Frankie Boyle.
Joe Rogan with President Donald Trump, in November 2024 – Jeff Bottari
During the 2020 Democratic primaries Rogan interviewed Tulsi Gabbard, Andrew Yang, and Bernie Sanders before coming out as a Bernie Bro. At which point the liberal establishment erupted in fury and worked as hard as it could to distance Rogan from the party.
“The Sanders campaign must reconsider this endorsement,” the Human Rights Campaign wrote at the time, after digging up transphobic and racist remarks from Rogan’s past. In 2024, Harris staffers claimed she’d wanted to do Rogan – and Rogan claimed he’d wanted to interview her. But the closest she got was Howard Stern, shock jock turned centrist dad.
It’s unclear exactly who Newsom is aiming the podcast at. It’s certainly not the Joe Rogan audience, as Newsom is not funny – at all. In fact, Andy Burnham has better gags. His supportive murmuring feels part therapist, part suburban enthusiast. Clearly, he sounds like he’s trying to explain to the Democrats why they lost. He also seems to be ingratiating himself with the Maga movement. And in one way, he truly is bringing the country together if the left, the right and the centre are all appalled.
Governor Gavin Newsom meeting Chinese President Xi Jinping in Beijing, October 2023 – AP
And yet. The political tip sheet Puck’s podcast, The Powers That Be, gave him a careful thumbs up, suggesting it’ll appeal to “the suburban dad and mom types, the sort of moderates who want to hear things they wouldn’t hear elsewhere, and to hear political opinions.”
Newsom has political form in the impossible and unpopular. His first elected position in San Francisco was for the city’s Board of Supervisors, representing the wealthiest and most Republican districts. He introduced drug treatment programs for the homeless, which was opposed by Right and Left. He ran for mayor as a centrist, introducing measures that alienated both Right and Left. He annoyed Democrats by not declaring San Francisco a sanctuary city. He infuriated Republicans with his unilateral introduction of gay marriage. Since becoming governor, he’s faced several recall petitions – again from Right and Left. In fact, on the face of it, his entire career has been a series of blunders and missteps. And yet, somehow, he keeps on getting elected.
He’s the Millwall of West Coast politics. His podcast is ridiculous. It’s not funny. It doesn’t challenge anyone. It’s clearly not good. But, and here’s a terrifying thought, what if it’s working?
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